this is something that don rumsfeld tried and failed to do. it's something that bob gates tried and failed to do in any serious way. and now, given the budget pressures, this is going to be the moment for performance. >> rose: a couple of points, i guess. rumsfeld would argue that we had a big war came along and bob gates would argue that in the end he did cut it somewhat. >> somewhat. but if you look at the total national security budget, charlie, which would be not just the pentagon but also the intelligence agencies, homeland security, it's basically doubled since the 9/11 attacks. >> rose: and weapons systems you don't really need in the judgment of many people other than those people who represent the districts where they're located. >> leftovers from the cold war and, remember, the president himself came in supported by chuck hagel on this point with the thought that there was a moment here to really build down on the nuclear force. and so far they have not been able to do that except some modest cuts when they passed the start treaty wi